I noticed Helios has a new network adapter add-on. Has anyone tried this? I know support for IDN is already forthcoming, hopefully it will all work!
https://bitlasers.com/openidn-network-adapter-for-the-helios-dac/
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Not tried but it will be a game changer for my setup as soon as they support multiple Helios DAC per OpenIDN
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Seeing IDN at the bottom of the future protocols list is not an encouraging sight
But as X-laser is a big sponsor and lasercube is pretty popular, it seems like a logical order.
Do you have a ballpark guess when IDN support might arrive @seb ?
Hey @PatHightree,
I canāt commit to a timescale for this right now, there are way too many variables and my to-do list is intimidating 
. Needless to say, supporting any network protocol is a huge investment, and there is a massive difference between getting it to work, and getting it to work reliably across a wide range of different set ups.
For this reason I would absolutely recommend Ether Dream as the network controller of choice for the foreseeable future. Itās had ten years of testing and rewrites under a wide range of conditions. Even when I get IDN and Laser Cube Network protocols working, itāll be a long time before itās as well tested as the Ether Dream.
IDN in particular is a chicken and egg situation, I am committed to supporting open protocols but while IDN hardware is in its infancy itāll remain low on my priority list in favour of features that everyone needs right now (timeline, timecode, midi interfaces etc).
FWIW X-laser are implementing the Ether Dream protocol into their Mercury system so at least I donāt have to do any work for that 
Hope this helps.
Seb
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(Also for what itās worth, I implemented IDN in ofxLaser some years ago, I think one of the very first open source libraries to support it. But the discovery protocol wasnāt ready yet and it fell by the way side in a later refactor)
Thanks for clarifying 
I fully understand the choices you have to make in prioritizing features, balancing development effort agains user value.
Also, I know that as a hobbyist, I have different wants than proffesional users.
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Bumpinā this thread.
After a quick search (yesss;done), IMO, IDN support should be a top priority.
In full disclosure, Iām a perfect example of a new beam-boi whoās always been fascinated by laser light and recently (and luckily by sufficient research) fell down the non-pangolin rabbit hole.
So, here I am, down in the rabbit hole. Looking up at two distant suns. LGS and Liberation. Love them both for their differences. No, Iām not blinded by Pangolin; itās fully eclipsed.
To the point. As I understand it, IDN is THE non-proprietary game changer. Something KVANT and Pangolin have likely been fearing for a while, maybe EtherDream XLaser as well?
I bought Gitās IDN adapter for the Helios DAC and Iām looking forward to the evolution to a one piece, then eventually a projector install-ready device.
For some, IDN might be the end of a solid run. For the same, I see it as a reason to either push their products further, or consider playing down to the newly developing league. Imagine a grandfathered āFB4/5ā League, while open-IDN presses forward.
Please make IDN support a priority, both via CAT6 and if possible and where applicable, via WiFi. IDN is the future; the god-send replacement for the DB-25 cable.
I love the vantage point I have right now, with LSG being the SL1200 MK2 and Liberation being the Ableton LIVE of laser projection. I love them both, independently.
If at all applicable, please remain steady on open-IDN implementation/support.
Thanks all for letting me borrow your eyes and brain for a bit, and by all means , please educate this rookie on what Iām likely native up on.
spkrjnky
Thanks for the reply @spkrjkny !
Nothing has really changed since my last email, I did take another look at IDN this year but I ran out of time. As you can probably imagine, my attention is constantly being pulled in multiple directions at once. I try to prioritise sensibly but everyone has different requirements so it is somewhat of an impossible task
I am still up for implementing IDN but itās still not a high priority. Itāll be something that happens while Iām working on other laser protocols.
But I want to re-iterate : Liberation only supports openly documented protocols. I believe that this is the best way forward for the laser industry and Iām heartened to see a software eco-system emerge that supports many of these formats.
Although Ether Dream, Laser Cube, Helios are not official standards, their protocols are documented and openly accessible by any software. There are no restrictions in place at all. And if any of those hardware platforms were to disappear, newcomers could make their devices compatible with these older protocols.
(I love what Gitle is doing with his IDN/helios prototype and honestly without him I think IDN would be a lost cause. Laser Animation Sollinger have told the IDN core group that they are no longer supporting the protocol and will be focussing on AVB - another open protocol that they have been using for years if not decades).
[UPDATE]
The other thing to bear in mind with protocol support is that itās not just the initial development cost I have to bear. There is ongoing support, maintenance and documentation, so the more protocols I support, the more my ongoing costs and burden would be. And itās not something that can be half arsed, I custom code all of Liberationās protocol support to be rock solid, and this can take years to get right. And this is right to do - if lasers are unreliable, itās Liberation that will get the blame, not the hardware.
Hope this helps, and thanks again for your enthusiasm!
Seb
I admit to being very new and naive, but Iām looking forward to being able to push via Helios-IDN some day; so I can remain true to my original DACs, if possible. Fairly certain weāll see Helios/LSG continue to evolve parallel to Liberation. No rush. I understand and appreciate everything youāre (both) doing, and Iām glad to be a part of it (all). Thank youās!
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Alright, so I feel like an absolute noob. I was messing around with the Helios IDN adapter on LSG, and maybe I donāt fully understand what I believe to be āIDN supportā, but Iām literally lasing from Liberation through the adapter via WiFi with no direct USB connection to the DAC. How can this be? Is this real life?
OK, I wanted to follow up and admit my error. A simple mix up in cables lead me to assume I was indeed lasing over IDN. I was working on resolving stability and buffer issues with IDN on LSG and made some very obvious errors. It honestly felt too good to be true! Apologies for the unintentional ā$hit postā. The good thing is ā¦ Iāll get my APC40mk2 next week.
I must admit I was a bit confused by your message but glad you figured it out! And great news re your APC40.
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Really bummed that I invested $500-600 in Helios DAC and IDNās for two lasers only to find that Liberation doesnāt support the setupš Iām really sold on Liberation in the longterm, but the only financial option for me at this point is to use a software that supports Heliosā IDN devices. Will stay tuned here for an update on when IDN is available.
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I just used an USB extender for my Helios DACs. But now I only use the Helios at home and got some Etherdreams for live shows.
Hey @with_shams welcome! I really appreciate the thoughtful replies here, and I want to take a moment to respond properly.
IDN support is still something I plan to do - I even implemented a prototype years ago in ofxLaser when the protocol first came out. Iām also still in touch with Gitle (who makes the Helios DAC), and I do have plans in the short to mid term to support IDN in Liberation. That said, priorities can shift quickly depending on user needs and the time available.
The main reason itās not already supported is that making it work reliably across a wide range of setups is a big task. Itās not just about getting it to send points - itās about discovery, error handling, and ensuring stability in all kinds of network environments. This year I have had to stay focussed on features that deliver the most value to the most users - things like the timeline, timecode, and MIDI integration.
I totally understand the frustration if youāve invested in IDN hardware. Iām committed to supporting open protocols, and I agree IDN is an exciting development - but itās still in development, and that makes it more complex to support well.
In the meantime, if youāre using a Helios IDN device, just a reminder that itās essentially a RockPi running custom firmware that drives a standard USB Helios DAC. So you can plug the Helios in via USB and use it with Liberation today for testing and shows. That way, youāre not blocked while waiting on network support.
For now, Ether Dream remains my recommended network DAC - itās battle-tested and reliable. Even X-Laser is adopting the protocol in their Mercury hardware, which says a lot about its maturity.
Thanks again for the thoughtful discussion and support - Iāll keep you all posted as things develop.
- Seb
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so i just found this new piece of Hardware, and i thought i put it here to keep the IDN plan on track 
this is a super low cost laser DAC that uses IDN (or IWP but i dont know that)
sadly its wifi only, but its all open sourceā¦ so hereās to hoping a RJ45 version (with PoE option pls) will pop up soon 
im just gonna build one for <90ā¬ and see what i can do
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I too have a bunch of Helios DAC and at some point wanted them to be connected via network. So I used this Hardware | VirtualHere together with GL-AR300M16. There is also a free version.
The GL-AR300M16 flashed with the virtual here firmware basically is used as a Wifi receiver with a USB port. On your PC there is a client running. All the devices you connect to this Wifi receivers USB port appear on you PC as if they were connected directly using the PCās USB ports, when in reality they are somewhere in the network. Works great not just for Helios DAC. I also use it to make my USB-DMX Interfaces ānetwork capableā. You need good Wifi though for a stutter free transmission.
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On the instructions page for VirtualHere there appears to be a LAN option when using the GL-AR300M16. Have you tried that? Seems like it would be more reliable than wifi.
I donāt have one to test.
@ravemind : No I have not tested yet. The main reason fo me to use VirtualHere is when I canāt install a cable.
But, yes LAN would be good to know for me too. I will test it next weekend.
I use LAN option (run virtualhere on RPI) and it works great! Considering buying the license (about 50 USD) so I can connect to more than 1 device.