Unsolved problem Abletonlink -> Liberation Timeline Start-Stop Sync

[Martin]

Hello,

I have a problem without any idea how to solve it.

I am preparing a new bigger showsetup for a sommer event with a lot of Dmx lights & fx, led wall (resolume), video projectors & led strips mapped (mad mapper) and Lasers(Liberation).

In the past I used one or two parts separatly and not all together for local cover bands. Fast easy setups. Now I have the crazy idea to use my own music for this Event (two options Ableton live or with mp3 mixdown). I have a lot of time to build up the stage and to coordinate many devices

Now to problem and setup overview

• 1x mini mac with ledwall and resolume sync with puls + Apc40 mk2 ( not in the pics)
• 1x mac book Ableton live with beam plugin to contoll Dmx lights, and mad mapper (2x projectors + ledstrips). I use capture to Design the stage.
• 1x mac book Master device, Ableton live (music+some keyboards) and Libaration (8×Laser, 8xDMX Devices)
• All macs are cable conected to an 1G ethernet switch nearby the macs. Than conected to a stage 1G ethernet switch with all controll notes; 2x Dmx showtec net2/3 (each two ports), etherdreams and 2xdigidot-c4 ,…, in the same IP room. Abletonlink is on and Linked.

Dmx notes with dmx light working fin. Music works fine and Libaration (stand alone timeline) works fine (8×Laser clips and 8xdmx) but …

when I change from timeline to Abletonlink

I get the correct temposync of all Ableton’s but Libaration starts immediately the transport without a start of any Ableton from me. No Positionsync of the transportbar. The laser clip are in beat sync but on the complete wrong start point.

I need the start stop at zero, when I hit play at Ableton.

The dmx side do that correct. Is in Position bar sync.

Attached the Libaration setups …

Do anyone know what I have done wrong or can Liberation not Start/Stop in sync incl. posbar?

Thx Martin

By the way, Seb you have done a great job. I love to use Libaration.

sorry for my english. I am from germany. not native speaking.

[seb (Seb Lee-Delisle)]

Hi Martin,

vielen Dank für die netten Worte - das klingt nach einem richtig spannenden und ambitionierten Setup!

Was du siehst, liegt daran, wie Ableton Link funktioniert. Ich glaube, Link synchronisiert nur Tempo und Beat-Phase, überträgt aber keine Timeline-Position. Alles bleibt also im Takt, aber es gibt kein „Start bei Takt 1“, weshalb Liberation sofort startet und deine Clips versetzt sind.

Ich denke, MIDI Clock ist hier die bessere Option. Achte darauf, dass der Song Position Pointer in Ableton aktiviert ist. Damit bekommst du Tempo, Start/Stop und auch die Timeline-Position, sodass alles gemeinsam bei Null starten kann.

Wenn alles auf demselben Rechner läuft, kannst du das über den macOS IAC Driver routen. Wenn du mehrere Rechner verwendest, kannst du Network MIDI (RTP MIDI) nutzen - das funktioniert gut, ist aber am Anfang etwas aufwendig einzurichten.

Kurz gesagt: Ableton Link ist super, um Dinge im Takt zu halten, aber nicht für Positions-Sync gedacht. MIDI Clock mit Position sollte dein Problem lösen.

Ich hoffe, das hilft - und viel Erfolg mit der Show!

Seb

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Hi Martin,

Thanks for the kind words - that’s a fun and ambitious setup you’re putting together!

What you’re seeing is down to how Ableton Link works. I think Link only synchronises tempo and beat phase, but it doesn’t send any timeline position. So everything stays in time, but there’s no concept of “start at bar 1”, which is why Liberation starts immediately and your clips are offset.

I reckon MIDI Clock is a better option here, and you’ll want to make sure Song Position Pointer is enabled on the Ableton side. That gives you tempo, start/stop, and timeline position, so everything can start from zero together.

If you’re running on the same machine, you can route this via the macOS IAC Driver. If it’s across multiple machines, you can use Network MIDI (RTP MIDI) - it works well, but can take a bit of setup.

So in short, Link is great for keeping things in time, but it’s not designed for positional sync. MIDI Clock with position should solve what you’re seeing.

Hope that helps, and good luck with the show!

Seb

[Martin]

Hi Seb,

Danke für die schnelle Antwort. Mir war bis heute nicht bewusst, das Abletonlink keine Positionsdaten mit überträgt. Jetzt arbeite ich schon solang mit Ableton, aber die Info ist an mir irgendwie vorbeigegangen. Oh man, das erklärt so manches. Da ich nahezu noch frei in der Entscheidung bin mit welchem Rechner ich die Music laufen lasse, konfiguriere ich erst mal Liberation und Music Ableton auf dem selben Rechner auf. Midi Clock mit macOS IAC Driver. Ok, dann an die Arbeit.

Ich gebe Bescheid, wenn läuft. Ist ja die Basis für den Rest.

Martin

Dear Seb,

Thank you for your prompt response. Until today, I was unaware that Ableton Link does not transmit positional data. Although I have been working with Ableton for some considerable time, this particular detail had somehow eluded me. Alas, this elucidates numerous previous ambiguities. As I remain largely undecided regarding which computer will host the music, I shall initially configure both Liberation and Ableton on the same machine, utilising MIDI Clock via the macOS IAC Driver. Very well, let us proceed with the work.

I shall inform you once everything is operational, as this constitutes the foundation for all that follows.

Warm regards,

Martin

[Martin]

Hi Seb,

Many, many thanks. Without your information, I would have continued to fumble aimlessly in the wrong direction for hours.

Now, the show begins. The plan is to perform three tracks: remixes of ‘Insomnia’ and ‘Nova’ by VNV Nation, alongside an original composition of mine.

Please find attached a short video demonstrating the current setup. And the LED wall at the last event on the stage.

I shall provide occasional updates once the laser show and DMX capture setup are fully assembled.

Kind regards,
Martin

Sorry for the quick and dirty music loop. 10 min. Work.