Hi … I’m new here and I’m looking for good laser/dac/price alternative to begin with (i already own Helios and one 3W shehds laser but looking for some type of upgrade (in scanning speed, precision and output power )).
I found a mention of Emma Lasers in this thread, from where i found on their site a really attractive product for me:
Looks like good alternative for good price (I don’t want to spend a lot of money on a hobby). Will this setup work with liberation thru direct ethernet connection ?. Thanks Seb or others.
this is pretty low end if you ask me… the DAC that it has built in is for Ishow and YW show only (imho a terrible piece of software not made for humans)
i would not trust that 50k statement one bit
I would ask OPT for their current linup, they have some great bang for buck models and can even sell you a model wich is FB4 “ready” where you can put in your own DAC if you feel up to it…
but if you are adventurous you could buy that model and remove the built in dac and replace it with a ED4, not super easy also not rocket science… up to you…
I’m in the same boat, constantly lurking all the laser groups for mentions of low-priced yet decent quality lasers for what is currently a hobby. I started with a 3w SHEHDS and sent it back for the 12w that was just a couple hundred dollars more because I wanted more brightness.
The thing I have not been able to dial in with SHEHDS is getting rid of tails without causing other issues..
I then got 2x YUER 15W “30-40kkps”. One of the two galvanometers has been damaged since day 1 and makes crazy noises, and I’m still going back and forth with their support to get a replacement galvanometer sent to me. The 2nd is not nearly as bright and also makes some noise.
The YUER is way brighter than SHEHDS, and the 40kkps upgrade definitely reduces flashing issues in large or complex outputs. However, the thickness of the beam is far greater than SHEHDS, making me realize and appreciate the sharpness SHEHDS offers. The white color balance on the YUER is also pretty terrible.
I was considering the KNIGHT Pub-8 10w PRO (advertised as 30kkps, but the KNIGHT rep claims it is 40kkps), which is super affordable (my quote was $680/unit and $195 shipping for 2 units from China to Southeast US). The white color balance test shots of the PRO series look great as well.
I’m trying to holdout for @seb recommended OPT brand. Their 10W 40kkps PR10 series PR10000 is currently on sale for $899 and has a divergence of 1.0nm, compared to KNIGHT and YUER, which advertise 1.2nm for comparable units at this price. I also like the attitude and demeanor of OPT reps much more than KNIGHT… I value good service quite a bit (one of the 1,000 reasons I will not stray from Liberation). Spec and price-wise the PR5 series 8W compared to the PR10 series 10W seems like a great choice ($580 vs $899), but I’ve been assured the PR10 series is far more professional-grade/accurate than the PR5 series.
I’d also stay away from 50kkps on cheaper China brands. I forget what brand I was speaking to but they told me 50kkps is not very stable..
FYI- I use Helios DAC, ILDA connection with a MacBook Pro..
I just bought the emma 10W/50Kpps 700$ free shipping, Tax i`m awaiting to pay (still in transit, but around 23% in europe).
Communication was really great .
i bought it primary for all the options which come out from the box. Like simple adjustment of the size of projection, all safety features, laser reshaping by fiberglass (i know how bad laser beams looks like from some OPT and sheds lasers (btw beam shape from 1Watt shehds is more superior in beam shape then shape from shehds 3 Watt. still this is only on paper i will see in reality)), connectivity .
I do not thing liberation is primary targeted to be used with one or two 50 Kpps scanner. From my understanding of its primary function it is more like for big and robust laser show with plenty of lasers (with simple beams where maybe 15kpps per scanner is enough) and not focused on graphic of one laser it self (still can be used this way). 50 Kpps i chose to be used for another purpose usage with different software, only to have open doors for different scenarios. Another lasers (if i buy any) will be probably 30/kpps max. For laser beams i also changing shehds laser to be used in 20kpps scanning mode. Then the light is more visible with beam show. From my point a cheap lasers (in 8+units) are meant to be used with liberation (AND OTHER SOFTWARE WITH LARGE AMOUNT OF LASERS IN SCENE). Expensive lasers with 10 and more lasers are just financial nonsense in big show.
I let you know when the laser arrive and i do some tests.
And also on other forums i found many complains on each brand , even on Kvant .
Hi Robert, just a word of caution - if you paid $700 for a 10W laser with 50kPPS scanners and free shipping, it most likely is the case that free shipping is the only true part of the deal.
Now whilst that doesn’t matter too much for power, it will matter for the scanners. My advice would be not to drive them anywhere near that speed.
A set of scanners that could do true 50kPPS would cost more than $700 alone, let alone the rest of the laser components.
Even with good quality scanners, it should also be remembered that the scan speed is usually stated for 8°, whereas the scanners are usually factory set for a maximum deflection of 60°, meaning you need to use slower scan speeds for anything over 8° or risk damaging them.
I understand you.. but simple research gives me information that 50k galvost with drivers from thrusted companies are around 300 $ in retail with specification in linearity is about 99.9 % in 15 degrees of movement and 30kpps . And many established brands are advertising 30kpps for 5degrees which are selling overpriced . So of course I do not awaiting the top of the class galvo. I will see. . But thanks . Anyway this laser normally cost 1400 and now is in discount for new release. Released this year ±. Business is growing and dinosaurs are dying. Still let’s hope for the best and count with worst.
I think there’s a bit of confusion here around scan rates and what Liberation can or cannot do. Scan rate specifications are a bit vague across the industry anyway, and Liberation’s rendering model can make them seem even more confusing at first.
But it’s not true that Liberation is mainly intended for large beam shows with slower scanners.
The default scanner settings are designed to work safely with a wide range of lasers and to avoid stressing scanners, which is why they tend to favour stability and beam effects out of the box. However, Liberation also has a lot of functionality for high-quality graphics and higher performance scanners.
There are many manual adjustments available in the scanner settings that allow you to optimise output for different scanners and different types of content. These are quite powerful controls, so they are really intended for advanced users who understand what the parameters are doing.
For example, if you’re seeing “tails” on graphics and you can’t fix it with the Scanner sync setting alone, you can often improve things by adding additional blanking points or slow down the blank movement. You can also adjust the point rate in the advanced laser settings. From version 1.0.3 Build 3 this no longer changes the scanner speed itself, but increases the resolution of the point stream. That gives you finer control over the scanner sync setting (sometimes called blank shift).
With good scanners you can absolutely get very high-quality graphics from Liberation. I have a laser here running EMS8000 scanners and they work beautifully.
Aren’t better scanners also absolutely a plus for beam shows and not just projection? Especially when combining patterns (having a wavy line running, and for instance adding in moving circles as accents during parts of the set that ask for it?) → I’d imagine layering patterns with 15k scanners would make the output heavily flash/flicker?
Technically yes - better scanners can handle more complex content with less flicker. But the reason isn’t just the maximum scan speed.
A big factor is how quickly the scanners can change direction. In motion control terms this relates to “jerk” - essentially how fast the mirrors can stop, reverse and accelerate again. Shapes with lots of corners or tight dots force the scanners to constantly slow down and change direction, which is where cheaper or slower scanners tend to struggle.
That’s why you can often draw quite large coverage shapes with modest scanners as long as the motion is fairly smooth and doesn’t involve lots of sharp corners.
Having said that, my personal opinion is that it’s usually better to use more lasers rather than trying to cram lots of content into a single laser. When one laser is doing too many things at once it often just starts to look messy, and the beam power is spread very thinly so the result can lack impact, especially in brighter rooms or with less haze. Faster scanners may make it less flickery, but you’re still spreading the brightness thinly. Of course that’s partly a stylistic choice.
There are a few other reasons people like faster scanners. You do gain a tiny bit of extra visible brightness because the mirrors move faster while blanked, which means proportionally more time with the beam on. In practice though this is quite a small difference, and these days it’s usually cheaper to just use a brighter laser.
I should emphasise, I always use reasonably decent scanners, rated at least around 30k. Once you get down to something like 15kpps you are definitely starting to hit the limits fairly quickly, especially with graphics.
But in real-world shows I’ve almost never found a situation where faster scanners would have made more difference than simply adding more lasers.
So yes… whatever the question, the answer is usually more lasers
This really does help a ton! I’ve been wanting more lasers specifically for beams and lines to create effects like a lightbar does, but I don’t want to connect via DMX. Does anyone have advice on low-priced lasers (specific product, series, and/or brand) or even spec guidelines for this specific purpose? This is really the only thing I’ve found from searching google, but I’m wanting a much lower price point than $1000/laser since I’m trying to snag a handful and currently a hobbiest.. Starshine Lights J11 Club Laser Lights 6w Array Lasers Compact Show System .
I’ve been using the Emma 10W / 50kpps and have actually had really good results for the cost. You can stack multiple of them to improve image complexity; they are inexpensive. Mind you I’m not doing rock stadium shows, but for events of 200-300 people they have been great! - Color isn’t perfect, so again, if super tight precision is your goal, maybe not.
These were generated via a Kinect Azure run through Touch Designer, but gives you a sense of what they can do. (the actual image of the DJ was a projector) but the borders / outlines were 2 x Emma 50kpps / 10w lasers.
Looks awesome for the price point , and also your lasers are released in some time ago, so maybe some updates will be applied (From my knowledge there is minimally the operating system board updated so it support direct drawing from pc thru their software, and the fiber optic laser profile reshaping module). Will see. Even your version looks great .
Your show looks great . Good idea for application of lasers.
I have a 15W 30k Emma laser that I paid a little over $500 USD for, and I’ve been very happy with it so far.
My recommendation is that if AliExpress or an equivalent website is available in your country, just look for the cheapest option within the spec range you want. A lot of the lasers sold by brands like Sheds or YUEY are actually generic units built by third-party Chinese factories. These companies buy them, put their brand sticker on them, add some fake variance papers and then market them heavily.
They also tend to sponsor a lot of YouTubers to promote them, and many of those videos don’t clearly disclose that they’re paid promotions. Because of that, those brands often show up first when people start researching the hobby.
The downside is that you usually end up paying a premium for essentially the same hardware. For example, I have two Constellaser 12W units — the same ones Sheds sells for around $835. I bought mine on AliExpress from a generic supplier for about $475 each, and everything matched the advertised specs.
OK finally i get my EMMA laser 10Watt/50kpps version .
Final price was 800 $ including VAT and shipping.
The laser build is excellent doesn`t look cheap at all. All safety features present. Cooling fans with filters to avoid dust to get inside (looks like hepa filters but I’m not expert). Perfect beam quality. I tried to take a photo but i got always a big glue white spot, then real image ( cellphone camera ). The shape of the beam is nice (from 10 meters projection distance), around 1cm square from red lasers, in the middle are thin green and blue stripes around 0.3 cm thick and slightly bigger in height (around 0.1cm on both sides). Perfect beam stability (3 watt shehds is always looking like shaking dot ). For what i can say the lasers beams are perfectly aligned.
50 Kpps scanners looks like they are present. Really smooth movement. Sharpness in corners depends on app I’m suing (for example I’m unable to achieve sharp corners on letters and color consistency thru LaserShowgen, but i do not understand the setting no problem wit liberation or default app ) . Scanners tests was made for example with 3D2DRudy.ild which is running approximately 1300 points per frame at 30 fps. Laser could draw the whole image (circa 15 degrees scanning angle) correct. At 35 fps the eyes starting to be missing. So around 40 Kpps at 15 degrees is pretty solid performance. For Liberation, absolutely no problems … there can be seen difference in fps when notebook is running on battery only . On cable all is running smooth .
Color calibration is needed to reduce a little bit of green laser power to achieve better yellow, but no problem there. Calibration is part of liberation or knobs on back can do this manually.
For me I’m satisfied ( one think is not true compared to paper … no 50 degrees scanning angle, something between 30-40 degrees). There is huge difference in quality compared to shehds for example (in all aspects )… cheap maybe .. build cheap? definitely not.
800 Euro not dollars is the final price. And for the “Cooling fans with filters to avoid dust to get inside” this are actually heat sink radiators (thanks to one friend who give me this correct information)…
