I hope these kinds of discussions are allowed, I think it would be very interesting and educative for starting and intermediate laserists to have an open conversation about this.
My laser gig is gaining traction and I have quite a few small gigs that approach me for a lasershow. In this early stage I’m quite flexible in pricing, as I want to gain more traction and network. However, doing a serious laser show is serious work: building up, concentrated operating + breaking down the same night most of the time. Smaller events will likely have a small budget, but can be a great way to build a relationship over time. I’m now going to start working with a model based on x amount of capacity of a venue.
I want to be transparent towards my audience, so I created the post underneath. I’m very curious to learn about your views on this (for me its: club shows ±6hrs of operation, lets say 4 lasers), and how you tackle this topic.
While I am not willing to divulge all of the pricing we use, I can give you some hints.
If you’re in the US, a good rule of thumb is $100/W per week of lasers, for rental and then add your day rate, plus the day rates of your techs. Then discount the ‘rental’ rate to suit client budgets.
This isnt a hard an fast rule and likely doesnt apply to any international markets but is a guideline used by several companies in the US to promote responsible billing that doesnt undercut the industry and crash prices for everyone. Of course you will want to ‘beat’ your competition on price, but these sorts of rates will help keep your company growing and competitive.
I’m now mostly offering all-in shows. So including my lasers and operation, not really renting them out (as I dont have controllers for pangolin, still of course heavily market leader).
But thanks for your input, will absolutely be of value in the future
For “corporate” / business events (standard concerts, clubs, etc) I use pricing similar to @StonewolfActual . Rent the lasers, charge my day rate, extra hands or additional hours if needed, delivery fee. Same with lighting if I’m running lighting as well - rent or subrent fixtures, set/strike labor, operating labor (If doing both, I will likely have help that also needs to be paid, and I may choose to discount the two operating day rates a bit but on paper, a laser operator and a lighting operator are two different people, so I am charging you for both if both lights and lasers are present. The LD doesn’t have the variance!). I always put list/retail pricing on the quote or invoice and add a discount line below that if there is one, so clients can see what the retail rate is even if they are getting a discounted rate. I also do not try to sell the “discount” rate as the going rate - I may offer for example a “first show” discount, or a multi-event discount for booking multiple events - but I will try to avoid discounting “just because.” Know your value, and if your clients can’t afford it, remove equipment to work within their budget, or…find better clients.
I also support a considerable number of underground/renegade raves, and I have a different model for them. The economics of underground events vary wildly depending on the crew and the geographic location, so I sit them down & have an honest conversation around what their particular finances look like and what they want. Supporting the underground is important to me and I am willing to work within the economics of the event to a degree. Typically this ends up being $5-700 all-in for setup, operation & teardown of 2-3x units in the 2-5W range and some haze. Aside from supporting the scene, these events are typically low-key and long hours, so it’s a chance to test out new ideas/setups & get new programming done in a low-stakes environment before I charge a corpo client a premium for a specialized setup. Also great for training assistants, and for getting social media content as the vibe at the events always looks like the vibe the clubs wish they had.
Thanks for your thorough reaction! Helps put things in perspective!
My audience for now is mostly my own network of events I’ve been to over the years, I’ve done a lot of partying and am now slowly switching to ‘the other side’ of the stage haha. I’m building my network of recurring gigs, while notifying them the price will rise each event. For me this works great, after their first event with lasers, they instantly see the value/impact and I get them addicted hehehe, so basically my model is like that of a street dealer, get them hooked and raise the price
I’m now working on my branding and want to make some cool videos to spread the words towards increasingly larger events, with better budgets.
I really like owning all the gear that I bring, so I can keep offering a competitive price and pick up a bit more margin because I/organizer dont have to rent anything. My most powerful lasers are 5W now though, so if I grow, my first purchase would probably be 2x 10W units. I feel like investing in 10W would be a sweet spot towards the future for indoor events from 800-4000 person venues.
I feel like holding off on outside events for now, because of regulations and need the need for even more powerful beams.
I can share a little local insight since I’m doing small club/warehouse events around Amsterdam with capacity from 200-1200 or so.
I use a billing model similar to what Dustin and Ian shared above. Most of the pros I know are using a similar model. People I know who are doing small gigs on the side (not pro) are using a more “all-in” model with a flat fee scaled by event size.
I separate my billing into 5 categories.
Labor - billed in 1/2 day increments for each operator and/or tech Design/programming - This covers any custom programming and previz design. The rate is the same as labor but itemized separately because it is often discounted more or offered for free in order to seal a deal. Laser rentals - I charge per watt per day with discounts starting at 10W and half price on subsequent days for multi-day rentals. I have a few add-on/upgrade costs like 60k scanners for graphics shows and bounce mirrors for special beam shows. External rentals - if I need to rent truss, extra lasers, etc, I pass actual costs to the client Fixed costs - haze juice, tapes/ties, transportation, parking, meals/lodging (if not provided), etc. I pass actual costs to the clients based on advice I received from several other pro LDs and laserists in NL.
Then based on client circumstances, I give individual discounts on labor and laser rentals from my inventory. External rentals and fixed costs are never discounted. For example, if a new client is referred by an existing client, I’ll usually offer a 20-30% discount to the new client and 20% discount to the referrer. If I am networking at a big event like the ADE conference, I will offer an “ADE discount” for something like 30% off for new clients (not redeemable during ADE or holidays like Koningsdag or Oud & Nieuw).
For small parties (<400 and tickets <€20), I offer discounts similar to yours based on capacity and an estimate of their overall budget. I don’t want to ask €1200 for lasers when the total event budget is €4000, but I also don’t want to undersell myself if it’s a special event with €50 tickets and a €20k budget. Sometimes if I just really like a festival or event series and want to collaborate with them, or if I have an existing client that is very easy to work with, I’ll offer a higher discount % or free add-ons/upgrades.
@Afturmath Wow, thank you so much for your elaboration! Not sure if you already guessed by my name/profile, but I’m also based in NL , enough events that need colourful skies for the both of us though!
No gigs in Amsterdam however (yet) I’m located in Arnhem and for now doing gigs around there, but I do have a friend that organizes an event in Melkweg, so that one might be coming up next year.
I really appreciate your input and will absolutely recommend you, might there ever be a gig in your area that doesn’t fit me gear/time/whatever wise. Or, if you’d need some extra 3W, 5W and in near future 10W lasers, I’ll heavily discount as gratitude for your openness
I’m also in amsterdam, although i’m not working professionally (yet) with lasers.
Have 2x 2.5w lasercube + 1x 7w lasercube if anyone ever happens to want to poke around with them
Either way, we should meet someday in spring and talk lasers, i’m currently gone abroad over the winter
More context would be helpful - what kind of event, how many people, where are you located?
I could see a universe where you’re in the middle of nowhere and it’s a restaurant who clears a dancefloor and brings in a mobile DJ, in which case they’re getting a great deal from you and probably can’t afford more…
In most markets in the US I would say you are drastically undercharging my friend
I will add my own contributions to this thread when I have time, but I just wanted to say how much I appreciate the openness in the Liberation community.
The laser industry has historically been quite a closed shop in many ways, so it is genuinely refreshing to see people openly sharing experiences, pricing and context like this. It is exactly the kind of discussion I love to see, helping to open things up and move the industry forward.
Thanks @mathijslaser for starting the conversation, and thanks to everyone else who has contributed.
, enough events that need colourful skies for the both of us though!
I’m located in Arnhem and for now doing gigs around there, but I do have a friend that organizes an event in Melkweg, so that one might be coming up next year.